Frustian's Mod

[Cloud]

would love to this in PTV
but ya
this will bring down of the number of teams coming back to l4d

[leogeo2]

I'm deciding on not including Frustian's mod for our tournament. In a discussion I had beforehand, a game needs to be easily accessible for newcomers and experts alike and this seems to break that entirely in the competition level.

[mrdj204]

[Bentley]

I'm deciding on not including Frustian's mod for our tournament. In a discussion I had beforehand, a game needs to be easily accessible for newcomers and experts alike and this seems to break that entirely in the competition level.

Sorry to hear that, because I absolutely love playing Frustian's mod, but at the same time I understand your choice. Maybe in future tournaments when there are more good teams.

Or, even better... we could use Frustian's in a high level league.

[ness33]

You wouldn't even consider it for playoffs?

[leogeo2]

No, it won't be used in playoffs either.

[shaftz0r]

so let me get this straight. you want a competition with prizes to be easily accessible for newer players? Have any of you played this game in competition? it's grossly unbalanced, and crutch based gameplay requires some sort of mod for comp. I said this in another thread with reply. No time limit or stopwatch mode? No health kit modifier? good lord...

[Conflag]

so let me get this straight. you want a competition with prizes to be easily accessible for newer players? Have any of you played this game in competition? it's grossly unbalanced, and crutch based gameplay requires some sort of mod for comp. I said this in another thread with reply. No time limit or stopwatch mode? No health kit modifier? good lord...

This isn't the Blizzard forums or some shit; I doubt that "have you even played this game" card will work. You're not making a good argument in favor of using the mod; it's actually quite poor. Grow up.

[leogeo2]

so let me get this straight. you want a competition with prizes to be easily accessible for newer players?

Yes, that's pretty much right. Where is the fault in this?

[Frustian]

I'd like to point out I just released a new version that fixes all known significant bugs with it.

Also it adds pausing, while not perfect I think you can agree it's better than the current courtesy system of having the survivors stay still and try to order the bot to stay with them.

Also I'd like to point out you can easily change your config file to have tier 2 with my mod, but keep the pills only, pausing, and tank fixes if you want to keep the features of the mod while keeping the game accessible.  The removing medkits is really a non-issue, unless your team is really getting rolled you hardly ever use the medkits, you either die before you get a chance to with the tank, or you finish the map with 4 kits.  They seerve no purpose other than to buff the survivors health bonus to 180 at the end of the map, and not truly show which team did more damage.

[ness33]

Hey, I know you've already rejected the plugin for the PTv league, but I wanted to make a bidding for the use of some of his cvars maybe for future leagues. On TWL some were trying to make points of this mod making it easier for bad infected teams, while I feel it shouldn't affect the game play too much. So I wanted to paste my post on here. I know not everyone is for the Frus Plugin, and no league has yet to pick it up, but maybe we can use some of his great fixes.

The two I'm focusing on that I'd like to see implemented into competitive play is pills only, and the tank fix (no tank rush/extinguish fire/replenish health).

But I would like to keep the T2's. This way the game play really doesn't change (since decent teams never really use health packs), so the game play should pretty much be the same.

The only real big point in make on the following post is that it would really show who is having a better game between two teams.

Sorry for the length of it 

Joining in on the conversation a bit late... but wanted to add some points here.

I apologize in advance for the long post, but its the only way I think I can really get my point across so that others understand it.


The MAIN reason why we worked on getting this plugin out, was because we noticed that any decent team would be going into the saferoom with all 4 medpacks on hand (160health bonus)... and if you want to exploit the tmp health system, simply incap all of your teammates if they are under 10 hp (perm health), to give them the extra 5 pts off of tmp health... and u'll end up with a MINIMUM of 180hb.

If you are on a decent team, ask yourself when was the last time you really had a to use a medkit? Most of the time everyone just hangs on to them and continually pop pills throughout the entire campaign.

I've seen some of you bringing up the point of this being a crutch for teams with bad infected sides... LOL? R U FOR SERIOUS? Please... lets look at a scenario here... using the current cfg... and then using a pills only cfg:

For the sake of these examples, i'm going with NM 2 as the map (a 1.3 modifier).

TEAM1 vs TEAM2.

CURRENT CFG

TEAM1 is survivors first. TEAM2 has a pretty good infected side. They do very good chip dmg here n there. TEAM1 fights the tank, 2 survivors get incapped, but TEAM1 survives the tank attack. With the amount of pills given around on that map (as I'm sure you all know), there is of course no need to heal up. TEAM1 just keeps finding more and more pills throughout the level and they keep pilling up. With the continuous chip dmg that TEAM2 continues to do, even the other two survivors on TEAM1 have been pilling up and have nothing but TMP health (but they haven't been incapped). So for the final stretch of the run in NM2, TEAM1 downs all of their pills and makes a run for the saferoom. They get there with more than 20+ temp health on each survivor. NONE of them have perm health. So their score is now 80 perm health (because of the med kits), which is equivalent to 40 health bonus, plus 20tmp health (=5hb) giving each survivor 45health bonus pts.

TEAM1 Score is 180 health bonus
180hb + 100% distance x 4 survivors, x 1.3 modifier = 1456.

Now TEAM2 is up on survivors. They breeeeze through the map. When they fight the tank, the tank corners 1 survivor and incaps that 1 survivor, while the other survivors destroy the tank. With 1 survivor incapped, they have that 1 survivor constantly taking pills, while the other survivors are taking minimal dmg. TEAM2 finishes the level, with 1 guy on tmp health, and the other 3 of 60hp. This means downed survivor has 45hb, and the other three 48hb (of course with all 4 having medkits on hand).

TEAM2 Score is 189 health bonus.
189hb + 100% distance x 4 survivors, x1.3 modifier = 1503

There is a 47 pt differential here. If you ask me... the game doesn't really reflect how much better TEAM2 did. If you keep going at this rate, TEAM2 wins the game by about 300pts.

Now... same EXACT Scenario, on PILLS ONLY CFG

TEAM1 finishes all on Temp health, and lets just say 40tmp health (since they downed their pills for the final run to the saferoom). This means they finish with a total of 40 health bonus.

You're looking at 40hb for TEAM1.
40hb + 100% distance x 4 survivors, x1.3 modifier = 728

TEAM2 with 1 guy on tmp health, and the other 3 with 60health, and all 4 carrying pills in the end. This is a total of 155 health bonus.
40hb + 100% distance x 4 survivors, x1.3 modifier = 1326


This is almost a 600 pt differential, with both teams playing EXACTLY the same. And you say this will benefit teams with bad infected sides? LOL!

Of course if you factor in the removal of T2's, it will really get hard to finish... but you guys are not really understanding that this isn't a SET config. This is a config with modifiable CVARS. Meaning you can do pills only with T2's if you'd like (which is actually what we've been pushing to leagues as of late).

With pills only & T2's being left as is, the game play won't really change at all (since teams rarely use med kits). If 1 team is playing better than another team, it will definitely be reflected on the score.

So in the end, all I'm really pushing for is the elimination of medpacks completely.

Oh and I'd like to see the pre-lit tank mod as well. This is where the tank will stand still while being AI before you take over (so it doesn't do anything stupid), and if he's already on fire (because he spawned in fire, or was pre-mollied by survivors), the fire will extinguish itself 2 seconds after the Human player taking over. Oh and you regain all of your health (in case the tank spawned in the survivors face, and they jus surrounded it with T2's blasting it before you took over). I'm sure some of you have seen a tank spawn near survivors, and by the time you actually get control of the tank, he's already at 1/2 health. This will give you your health back.

So yeah, pills only + tank fix = WIN!

[Phokus]

so whats the deal here? You say no on the thread  but i see this on the main tourney page: We will be using CEVO rules which will be available for reference on our website and CEVO's. We will be using Frustian's Mod for the entire length of the tournament. It will be available for download starting tonight 09.14.2009

either way it would be nice to have a clear answer.

[ness33]

oh what!!!?? We are using frus's mod!?? Ohhhh shiiiet... nice!

Oh and to clarify... We will be using CEVO RULES for the tournament. You know, like... "its illegal to camp here" or go there, and what not.

But the config to be used will be FrusMOD!!! w00000t. nice I'll try to get Leo to talk to him further about this.

[Phokus]

yea still waiting on the actual rules they wanna use with frustian's mod.. like it was stated above a lot of the things like t2 can be put in.. it would be great to get some finite answers.. they might be up somewhere as i am just checkin this thread in between classes.

[ness33]

No, i think thats a discussion the admins will have soon. I'm sure once they've reached a discussion, they will make an official announcement. But for now I think they are definitely going to use Frus's Mod, they are just not entirely sure on how exactly they will do it.